Jaguar vs African lion in Animal vs Animal Forum

0 Points

Jaguar vs African lion

Author	Comment
kaplan	Jaguar vs African lion	Lead	[-]
Posts: 146 Fri, Dec 19, 2008 2:01 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tags : None Now while there are some places where African lions average 400 lbs, there are also places where African lions average 300 lbs, and since they are all still the same subspecies of lions, you would have to consider the weight of the highest and lowest to determine a fair average. And in this case, the average weight of an African lion, then, would be about 350 lbs. The jaguar averages about 220 lbs. Since I know every little info about the attributes of jaguars that relates to his fighting ability, i would have to assume that he is very similar to his stripped cousin, the tiger. Now, this fight would not take place inside a cage. It would happen on a fair natural environment. The situation would be that of a jaguar, having not eaten in one week, made a kill, and a lion came around and attempts to challenge the jaguar for his kill. The jaguar knows that if he does not eat this deer his chances of survival is blink, and therefore his only option is to fight the bigger lion. The 350 lb lions advantage would be size plus strength. The 220 lb jaguar's advantage would be speed, agility, athleticism, cunning, stamina, and his ability to box like a tiger. You also must consider the fact that the jaguar is recognized as pound for pound the strongest cat, which includes bite force. Jaguars have been reported cracking the shelves of turtles, which is a feat that a lion cannot accomplish. The lion would have a very hard time landing a good blow to the jaguar, and after several minutes I see the lion running away after it has taken many swipes from the massively strong cat. Last Edited By: kaplan Fri, Dec 19, 2008 2:41 PM. Edited 1 time.
	Remove this ad
Apollyon.sharks77551		#1	[-]
Posts: 2632 Fri, Dec 19, 2008 2:15 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Dead Jaguar in a matter of minutes at most. Likely faster. so, the Jag is faster, stronger, more agile than the clumsy incompetent Lion? The Lion is the most combative Big Cat - this is based upon years of research including tenure, infanticide, life span, mortality rates, etc. Very little info on the Jag. Likely similar to the other Big Cats - a lone hunter that is likely careful of all out fights (see Mills on Tiger) and likely has less fights overall with a longer tenure. Also, we don't know if Lions are as little as 300 lbs. This is based upon a pair of male Lions in Waza that weighed 145 kg (319 lbs). The Lionesses were quite small averaging only 205 lbs. It is likely that Lions in some areas average only 350 lbs while in other areas they average over 400 lbs. A Sunderban Tiger is around 350 lbs. I suppose this Tiger would destroy the Jag but the Lion of course would be about evenly matched? The stupidity on this board is unparalleled. Additional comments: Boxing is useful only in keeping the attacker off for a bit. it has almost zero effect however whereas heavy hits and attacks do (Lion usually attacks). Additionally, there is no evidence Lions can't crack turtle shells. the usual lack of knowledge here. I'm special and I don't mean retarded
kaplan		#2	[-]
Posts: 146 Fri, Dec 19, 2008 3:02 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Apollyon wrote: so, the Jag is faster, stronger, more agile than the clumsy incompetent Lion? The Lion is the most combative Big Cat - this is based upon years of research including tenure, infanticide, life span, mortality rates, etc. Very little info on the Jag. Likely similar to the other Big Cats - a lone hunter that is likely careful of all out fights (see Mills on Tiger) and likely has less fights overall with a longer tenure. Boxing is useful only in keeping the attacker off for a bit. it has almost zero effect however whereas heavy hits and attacks do (Lion usually attacks). Additionally, there is no evidence Lions can't crack turtle shells. The social life of a jaguar and lion is not very different. The lion leaves his mother pride at age 3 and goes out to fight for a pride. The jaguar is no different, he leaves his mother at the age of 2, i assume, and then goes out and fight for an area where there are females. and in order to win that territory, he must fight and defeat the dominate male there. And while he rules, other males will come and challenge. In fact, we can say that being solitary, the jaguar have more experience fighting 1 on 1 battles than lions. The average pride composes of more than one male lion, therefore, we can assume that most lion fights are gang fights. And gang fights are very different from one on one fights. Gang fights are where the side with the higher numbers surrounds the lower number team and take turns. Therefore, it can be assume that jaguars have more 1 on 1 fighting experience. But, lions having experience in fighting other lions will help him little in a fight with a jaguar. You see, a jaguar do not fight like a lion. Its like a Tai Kwan Dao master fighting a Ju Jet su expert. No matter how much experience the Tai master has in fighting other Tai masters, he is no match for a ground fighter. Just like the Ju Jetsu master, the jaguar's fighting ability is superior to that of a lions, therefore, though the jaguar does have any experience in fighting a lion as well, only the lion will have a disadvantage in this conflict of fighting styles. It is inituation that makes you think that the lion will land harder blows that the jaguar, but not so. The jaguar's ability to free both of his front paws from the ground will in fact enable him to throw swipes that will carry a full range of motion. The lion's three point stance will restrict his swipes to cary a full range of motion swipe Now, whether or not the jagaur can produce heavier swipes may be irrelevant, as these are cats, not gorillas. You forget that cats have claws. If the jagaur mange to land more blows, which he will, then the jaguar will open up more wounds. Cats instinctively knows that wounds are infectiions. The more wounds the cat has, the more likely he will run away.
Ernest Wright		#3	[-]
Posts: 1000 Fri, Dec 19, 2008 3:09 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Apollyon let me explain something to you. Jaguars about twice the size of a Cougar or Leopard. It's bite force higher then a lions, about the same as a tigers. It took a lioness 20 minutes to defeat a leopardess. http://query.nytimes.com/...F34BC4F52DFB566838C669FDE As to this fight, Unbaisedly I'd be nervous of the Jaguars agility and jaw pressure, it's snake like abilitys to twist it self around to get a bite hold. 300 lb Jaguar versus 400 lb lion, 200 lb Jaguar versus 300 pound lion, I'm not sure who I'd favor, and that's the truth. If betting in a pit fight. Sorry but that fantasy of it being over in a matter of minutes is wrong. 4 lionesses fought a leopard and the leopard lived and got away. http://www.wildwatch.com/...htings/battle-of-kirkmans Kirkman's Kamp Kirkman's Kamp, with its spectacular views of the unspoilt wilderness and the Sabi Sand River, is regarded as one of the best loved lodges in the Sabi Sand Game Reserve. A well known historic camp, originally built in the early 1920's Kirkmans Kamp celebrates the atmosphere of an early South African lowveld homestead. Battle of Kirkman's The previous day, four lionesses of the Selati Pride killed a male kudu. With a promise of good vulture activity we headed in. the lionesses lying, stomachs bulging in the shade of some Jackalberry trees (Diospyros mespiliformis) in the Sand River - so why not follow up? This was the beginning.... We watched the lions sleeping with one feeding on the carcass, every now and then chasing a bold Hooded Vulture that got to close. We drove through a dense reed wall to try and gain a visual of where the carcass was, where I suddenly caught a glimpse... the pattern of spots; a leopard lying not 20meters south of where the carcass lay. Brave or foolhardy? After struggling through the reeds we had a view, a male leopard and the carcass. The male leopard looked intent on the kill, hungry no doubt. We identified him as the dominant male in the area. A lioness was still in the area of the carcass. We watched and waited for 10-15 minutes, a rhino bull came trudging up the Sand River not 30 m from where the leopard crouched. Suddenly the leopard started a slow approach low to the ground... all of us thinking 'balls of steel'. Tension mounted. Edging closer, he halted mid-way for a moment and then sleeked forward focused on the kill. Quickly, he bit off, literally more than he could chew and swallow. One bite and panic set in, more for the guests on the two vehicles, than for the brave leopard. Coarse whispers of "get out of there" resounded from our side the river. A female lion was in full charge towards the leopard - THE LEOPARD DID NOT BACK AWAY, and there was time...but fought back, both snarling and growling, bodies spring-loaded, claws unsheathed and teeth fully armed, the leopards' defensive, on its back facing the onslaught. It was seconds before the three other lionesses charged forward at the scene awakened by the hype. A full scale fight - the lions gnashing and trying to inflict some serious bodily harm. The male leopard was in full battle. The fight lasted 30 seconds. If this leopard had been trained in battle - this would be his climax. Can you imagine the scene - four lionesses, each double the size, crazed, all snarling, trying to kill this leopard - the leopard reacting defensively biting and ripping through the air (if only words carried audio). The lions surrounded him dashing in and trying to maim. The leopard got a bite hold and claws of one of the larger lionesses by the nose and hung on while the lioness dragged him a couple of meters, back legs flailing at the rest of the pride keeping them at bay. Split seconds and it ended - a moment stand off. Harsh growling continued through out ... leopard lying still, breathing heavily, the four lions lying in between it and the kill. Five minutes ticked by, one lioness stood up to move away, the leopard growled and moved a little, the lionesses were on him again. Ferocious snarling erupted again. Seconds later it abated - the male leopard with one small puncture wound on his left hind quarter. Emotionally tense, tears and shock rippled amongst the anxious guests, rangers and trackers. All of us with lumps in our throats and shaking as we thought, was this the end? What were the chances of survival? How could there be a chance? We were backing the underdog for sure! !5 minutes of shear nerves followed, leopard on its side facing its quarries almost touching one of the lions with its back leg, face pulled back in a snarl ready for anything. The lioness with blood on her face cowardly slinked off out of harms way five meters away. Two of the four females lost interest and moved off. A Spotted Hyena amazingly appeared on the scene gaining the attention of the lionesses as it skulked slowly investigating the scene, moving slowly forward, keeping a safe distance, the smell of the carcass to much for it to bear. The lionesses zoned in on this new intruder. Eyes locked. A chance being created - a moments notice and the leopard rose to a crouch and leapt into life running, arcing around the lionesses. The two lionesses immediately giving chase. Everyone, under their breaths were pleading for the life of this brave leopard to escape. Jumping up the river bank over some dead Wild Date palm leaves (Phoenix reclinata) into some thick foliage; it disappeared. The lionesses stopped, unable to easily follow and walked back to the carcass. We all breathed. What an incredible occurrence to have witnessed. The male leopard was seen by another vehicle just further to the North climbing up into a tree, unperturbed by the life threatening situation that had just taken place. Incredible footage was filmed and "The Battle of Kirkman's" has been recorded. It will be on television at 7.30pm on 50/50 on Monday, the 3rd December. The following day, audio of fighting leopards was heard 200meters south from where the previous incident happened. The dominant male leopard was fighting another younger male leopard in his territory. He won, the younger male in full flight. The day after that, this same dominant male was seen having just killed a female warthog and 2 piglets. Then another huge male leopard came onto the scene, again a full scale fight occurred. Each leopard with gashes and claw marks. That is another story though. What a week for this incredible male leopard. Can leopard viewing get any better than this.
Ernest Wright		#4	[-]
Posts: 1000 Fri, Dec 19, 2008 3:17 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I think everyones starting to come around to the fact a Jaguars a very dangerous cat, that even a cat with a 100 lb advantage will hold no strength or jaw power advantage. I think everyones starting to come around to the fact. It's a toss up. I feel the Jaguar will go at the lion combatively, and per example if this fence wasn't here, I felt the Jaguar would have fought the lion back tatic, skull grab, with the intent to defeat his foe. That's just my opinion.
the bold champ.sharks77551		#5	[-]
Posts: 10805 Fri, Dec 19, 2008 5:12 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	ernest, a jaguars bite force is not higher than a lion`s. likewise, they are not nearly as strong, due to the lion`s much greater size. jaguars average 53 - 100 kg in the wild ( i have many records). likewise, a lion is more aggressive, and they have that protective mane of there`s. the fight will be over in minutes, with the lion gaining a death grip upon the throat of the jaguar. Lions are truly the king of beasts, in both action, and looks!
Ayaaz.sharks77551		#6	[-]
Posts: 1661 Fri, Dec 19, 2008 5:40 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	a jaguar would rip lion apart in a fight. 220lb jaguar vs 300lbs lion is a mismatch. lion is doomed.
kaplan		#7	[-]
Posts: 146 Fri, Dec 19, 2008 6:37 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Ernest Wright wrote: Apollyon let me explain something to you. Jaguars about twice the size of a Cougar or Leopard. It's bite force higher then a lions, about the same as a tigers. It took a lioness 20 minutes to defeat a leopardess. http://query.nytimes.com/...F34BC4F52DFB566838C669FDE As to this fight, Unbaisedly I'd be nervous of the Jaguars agility and jaw pressure, it's snake like abilitys to twist it self around to get a bite hold. 300 lb Jaguar versus 400 lb lion, 200 lb Jaguar versus 300 pound lion, I'm not sure who I'd favor, and that's the truth. If betting in a pit fight. Sorry but that fantasy of it being over in a matter of minutes is wrong. 4 lionesses fought a leopard and the leopard lived and got away. http://www.wildwatch.com/...htings/battle-of-kirkmans You see, a fight inside a cage is not a fair fight, since the bigger animal will have an advantage, but it is not a fair advantage. In an open environment, it would force the bigger and much slower lion to catch the jaguar first.� The jaguar would dance like Muhammad Ali. The lion wouldn't be ale to pin the jaguar in an open environment, and even if it is pinned, the jaguar's quick paws may still get the better of the lion. In fight between two completely different animals, there is no reason for it to be a draw.
aranebis.sharks77551		#8	[-]
Posts: 623 Sat, Dec 20, 2008 11:49 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	The Lion is the most combative Big Cat Pure claim without any evidence. African lions have a lower testosterone level than both } Bengal tigers and Asiatic lions. this is based upon years of research including tenure, infanticide, life span, mortality rates, etc. Please provide the studies } Where are they ? Moreover, you are talking about a conjuncture. If lions are genetically more aggressive, why don't we find the same relations with Asiatic lions ? A Sunderban Tiger is around 350 lbs. Where are the evidence ? This is another of your delirium. The range of Bengal tigers starts to 180 kg against 145 kg for African lions. Nothing to discuss, case closed. Additionally, there is no evidence Lions can't crack turtle shells. Yeah, there is... according to John Varty. the usual lack of knowledge here. Funny to hear that from one of the most incompetent member of this forum. About the question } Lion is the weakest of big cats. More specialized for running, less agile, less active, social, lighter build etc. But even in this case, 350 lbs vs 220 lbs makes a huge size difference. Last Edited By: aranebis Sat, Dec 20, 2008 7:07 PM. Edited 2 times.
the bold champ.sharks77551		#9	[-]
Posts: 10805 Sat, Dec 20, 2008 4:22 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	.....arane, tigers too, can weigh as little as 145 kg, and sometimes a bit less. however, few studies exist, and, of ones that do, only figures upon average specimens are given. lions very rarely weigh 145 kg. those records upon waza lions are based only upon the measurements of 4 adult males, and at least one of whom was old and had a broken tooth...,...hardly conclusive. likewise, sources upon sundarbans tigers indicate an average of 130-160 kg. and, african lions have a higher level of testosterone than either asiatic lions, or indian tigers. only those lions from the crater, which suffered from inbreeding, have a slightly lower level of testosterone.........at least, as compared with siberian tigers. lions very rarely weigh 350 lbs......a more likely average is about 190 kg....which is the average as given for the lions nof botswana. likewise, the lions of rhodesia average 193.3 kg, while those of the serengeti weigh 189 kg on average....scarcely any different. ....tigers from central india likewise weigh 190 kg on average, according to dunbar brander, who measured 42 fully mature adult males. Lions are truly the king of beasts, in both action, and looks!
arane33.sharks77551		#10	[-]
Posts: 451 Sat, Dec 20, 2008 5:27 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	likewise, sources upon sundarbans tigers indicate an average of 130-160 kg. Show me this source. Any source saying that is completely unreliable. This is a complete contradiction with the range given for tigers. The lowest average weight for African lions is 145 kg and their range starts to 145/150 kg. However, there is a difference between 180 kg and 160 kg. If Sundarbans tigers had this average weight, then their range should begin to 160 kg. This is not the case. Lowest average weight ever known for Bengal tigers } 190 kg (from hunting records = dead animals). Case closed. and, african lions have a higher level of testosterone than either asiatic lions, or indian tigers. only those lions from the crater, which suffered from inbreeding, have a slightly lower level of testosterone.........at least, as compared with siberian tigers. Once again, you continue to lie... that's pathetic. lions very rarely weigh 350 lbs......a more likely average is about 190 kg....which is the average as given for the lions nof botswana. likewise, the lions of rhodesia average 193.3 kg, while those of the serengeti weigh 189 kg on average....scarcely any different. Only 1 population of lions reached an average weight over 190 kg. All other lions are under 190 kg. I asked you the link about Smithers, you never gave it } WHERE IT IS ??? Even if this source was true, we have an average weight of 196 kg for Zimbabwe lions. ....tigers from central india likewise weigh 190 kg on average, according to dunbar brander, who measured 42 fully mature adult males. You don't have any evidence... it's just your claim... but you are a liar. Not only that, even in your own supposed extract, it is never clearly mentionned that those tigers are from Central India. This source is never quoted among current sources, this source is useless anyway. Last Edited By: arane33 Sun, Dec 21, 2008 11:38 AM. Edited 2 times.
	Remove this ad
fallenmonk		#11	[-]
Posts: 531 Sat, Dec 20, 2008 11:49 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	A Jaguar wins this fight 70% of the times. He is too fast, cunning and skillfull in hunting and fighting. He is perhaps pound for pound the strongest or second strongest Big cat. Lion is perhaps the least strongest pound for pound. Therefore, even a difference of size will perhaps tend to make the equivalent strength even for them. And size is the only advantage a Lion has over a Jaguar. But if it was a match between a Jaguar and a Sumatran Tiger, I would go for the Tiger.
fallenmonk		#12	[-]
Posts: 531 Sun, Dec 21, 2008 12:06 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Apollyon wrote: A Sunderban Tiger is around 350 lbs. I suppose this Tiger would destroy the Jag but the Lion of course would be about evenly matched? There has been no study done on the weights of the Sunderban Tiger. In fact, no research as yet has the balls to go to the dense swamp, capture the man-eating Tigers and study them. They aren't even filmed much in the wild. The first footage of a wild Sunderban Tiger was captured only a few years ago and later the documentary "Tigers of the Swamp" was made by the same man who filmed the first footage. Since they are also Bengal Tigers, they are supposed to be the same weight as the other Bengal Tigers. In any case, this Tiger will destroy a Jaguar if they fight. As for my last post, I feel I said too much in my enthusiasm of the Jaguar's abilities. I guess the fight would be a draw between a Jaguar and Lion.
Ayaaz.sharks77551		#13	[-]
Posts: 1661 Sun, Dec 21, 2008 4:17 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	sunderban tiger census was taken in march 2008 and their averages showed. 166kg-190kg.
arane33.sharks77551		#14	[-]
Posts: 451 Sun, Dec 21, 2008 11:45 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	fallenmonk wrote: Lion is perhaps the least strongest pound for pound. You are right. Lions are social animals more specialized for running. They are the least active of all cats. They lack the strength, agility, weapons (etc.) of solitary cats. Especially the ones living in forest. Without any doubt, they are the weakest of big cats. Their sight and hearing is also likely less good than forest felines.
jlol1567		#15	[-]
Posts: 182 Sun, Dec 21, 2008 12:39 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	This thread is a joke! Do you seriously think that a jaguar can kill any lion? A fight between a tiger and a lion is considerately acceptable because they both have the same size and strength. However, jaguar VS lion is beyond absurd. The lion can kill the jaguar in just 5 mins. The jaguar can seriously wound the lion but it will be defeated 99.99%. Good luck with your debate!
arane33.sharks77551		#16	[-]
Posts: 451 Sun, Dec 21, 2008 2:20 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	jlol1567 wrote: This thread is a joke! Do you seriously think that a jaguar can kill any lion? If they are close in size, no doubt about that. A fight between a tiger and a lion is considerately acceptable because they both have the same size and strength.
perrault		#17	[-]
Posts: 4386 Sun, Dec 21, 2008 2:27 PM Senior Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	A big male jag is no doubt a formidable animal . It may be a match for a lioness but i believe that to be a stretch . Male lion is far too big .
the bold champ.sharks77551		#18	[-]
Posts: 10805 Sun, Dec 21, 2008 3:49 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	There has been no study done on the weights of the Sunderban Tiger. ...actually, fallenmonk, there has. i could bring records, if you wish? In fact, no research as yet has the balls to go to the dense swamp, capture the man-eating Tigers and study them. ...the sundarbans tiger project has studied the population of sundarbans tigers. They aren't even filmed much in the wild. The first footage of a wild Sunderban Tiger was captured only a few years ago and later the documentary "Tigers of the Swamp" was made by the same man who filmed the first footage. Since they are also Bengal Tigers, they are supposed to be the same weight as the other Bengal Tigers. In any case, this Tiger will destroy a Jaguar if they fight. .....and, they have been filmed in the wild. it is merely your lack of knowledge for which you gathered such a conclusion. and, i have a record where a tiger fights with a leopard, and, though the tiger eventually won the battle, was very badly injured, and died three weeks later. the leopard had to be cloraformed....it was too badly injured, with a broken back......an unusually big, aggressive jaguar may indeed be a match for a tiger. .....and, a lion, being, in most cases, twice the size of a jaguar, would most certainly win in any battle. likewise, there aggressive nature and large mane may be enough to discourage the jaguar from wanting a battle with this big cat. Lions are truly the king of beasts, in both action, and looks!
the bold champ.sharks77551		#19	[-]
Posts: 10805 Sun, Dec 21, 2008 3:58 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Show me this source. Any source saying that is completely unreliable. This is a complete contradiction with the range given for tigers. .......arane, most sources upon which weight figures are given for tigers are mere estimates. likewise, others are of certain tiger subspecies, often for which little records exist. but, a tiger can weigh as little as 318 lbs. The lowest average weight for African lions is 145 kg and their range starts to 145/150 kg. ......that was based only upon the measurements of 4 adult male lions.....and, at least one of whom was old and had a broken tooth. If Sundarbans tigers had this average weight, then their range should begin to 160 kg. ....arane, even karanth gave a range as low as 175 kg for chitwan tigers. likewise, a weight of 318 lbs was mentioned by cooch behar. Lowest average weight ever known for Bengal tigers } 190 kg (from hunting records = dead animals). ....brander measured his animals immediately after death. likewise, sundarbans tigers are said to be much smaller. Case closed. ....case not closed. Once again, you continue to lie... that's pathetic. ...where did i lie?......i have sources upon the testosterone of male siberian tigers, ngorongoro lions, serenegti lions, asiatic lions, ect, of which i base my claims. do you? Only 1 population of lions reached an average weight over 190 kg. .....botswana lions average 190 kg....and, the lions mentioned in the book 'a lion`s life' were stated to have averaged 420 lbs. serengeti lions, also, weighed about 189 kg. scarcely any different. All other lions are under 190 kg. ....no, 202 kg was given for zimbabwe lions, and, i already mentioned the source. I asked you the link about Smithers, you never gave it } WHERE IT IS ??? You don't have any evidence... it's just your claim... but you are a liar. ...that wasn`t a claim. this was mentioned in his book. i`ll get the quote later. Not only that, even in your own supposed extract, it is never clearly mentionned that those tigers are from Central India. This source is never quoted among current sources, this source is useless anyway. ......schaller quoted brander, if `im not mistaken. and, besides, he brander stated to have weighed the animals....which is confirmation in itself. likewise, the book is titled 'wild animals in central inaid'....the name is self explainatory. regardless, they are of indian tigers. Lions are truly the king of beasts, in both action, and looks! Last Edited By: the bold champ Sun, Dec 21, 2008 4:36 PM. Edited 1 times.
the bold champ.sharks77551		#20	[-]
Posts: 10805 Sun, Dec 21, 2008 4:37 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	arane, here`s the source upon sundarbans tigers; Lions are truly the king of beasts, in both action, and looks!
	Remove this ad

<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>

Add Reply

Yuku free message boards

Jaguar vs African lion

Jaguar vs African lion