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Fri, Mar 7, 2014 9:40 PM
Asad wrote:Assuming your young and vibrant, a lion is a lion as Dr. Packer called them all "cave lions". They resided all over Asia non forested area, and chances are those large skulls found in China belong to PL Fossilis not a tiger, would not be surprised. Regarding your tiger weights, it is your own conclusion, but Dr. Sunquist said, that a tigris ate over 56 kg over few days on her own, do the math for male.
not proved that the cave “lions” were indeed lions, nor even scientists are
agree on this yet. Dr Packer is an expert of modern lions BUT he has never
worked with fossils.
specimens are completely diferent than modern lions, they are separated by more
than 600,000 years of evolution and correspond to a different taxa.
You had not
post a single evidence to say that lions lived in China, the book that you
mentioned clearly show that those fossils are TIGERS. Did you want to see it
this source as evidence than Panthera youngi was a lion in Pleistocene China:
Here is the
link to the full book: http://books.google.com.gt/books?id=vL4_vUbv4ZQC&printsec=frontcover&dq=paleoanthropology+and+paleolithic+archeology+in+the+people%27s+republic+of+china&hl=es&sa=X&ei=QqsXU-CsKc670AGt9YGABA&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
So, I read
the book and guess what, IT DON’T EVEN
MENTION THE WORD “LION” OR “LEO”.
Check the images:
only mentions Felis youngi and only in ONE
other hand, this book mentions NINE
times the tiger (specifically “tigris”),
book, we can conclude that all the large fossil cats (Panthera (or Felis) youngi)
in China are TIGERS. The evidence IN THIS BOOK shows this.
As we can
see, Asad is a liar that shows FAKE
evidence. As you
can see, Asad-idiot is faking evidence now. Shame on him/her/it.
link that Asad quotes mention a discovery of a Pleistocene Cromerian “lion” in
NO MENTION OF Panthera youngi!!!!
link is just a group of abstracts of several documents and in ANY of them is
showed the word “youngi”. Besides
they loosely use the name Panthera leo
spelaea or Panthera spelaea,
which shows that scientists had NOT defined yet if the great cave cats in
Pleistocene of Eurasia were true lions or a complete different species only
closely related with lions, just like modern jaguars and leopards.
used by Asad: http://www.scribd.com/doc/85149002/SEQS2010absractsrostov
You can see,
no “youngi” on it.
read it now??? Did you see that you are faking evidence???
food intake, You most stop misinforming and twisting the data, Asad-LIAR.
First: Dr Sunquist was confused in this email of 2011,
he believed that the figure of 218 kg
proposed By Kitchener & Yamaguchi (Tigers of the World, 2010) was of
the average weight of Nepalese tigers
overall. At the end, this was just the stupid estimation of Yamaguchi for
the Sauraha male, which actually weighed 260 kg empty belly. I had already written
to him to show this and I am waiting for his answer.
Second: Schaller (who studied tigers only by a single year)
observed no aggression because all the tigers at the baits were FAMILIARS!!! This
was proved by Dr Sunquist ans his wife Fiona (3 years study) and Valmik Thapar
(over 20 years study), which observed several times, group of tigers at kills
but ALL WERE FAMILIARS. Tigress gives part of they territories to her daughters
and sometimes they make reunions with the dominant male, the tigress with here
cubs and the daughters of previous litters with their own new cubs. Thappar
(2004) recorded nine tigers in a kill, all of them related.
Third: The tiger that eat 57 kg, do that in a period of THREE DAYS, not in a single meal.
Why you don’t show the full paragraph???
values are from feeding in SEVERAL DAYS, not in a single day.
As you can
see, there are only 5 cases of the 38 studied. Check that these tigers eat only
between 13.6-19 kg in a day (24 hours), the full 57
kg where in the period of THREE DAYS!!! You are
a liar Asad, and HERE is another evidence of that. By the way, these
five cases are maximum cases, not the norm (check Table 27). The single tigress that eats 30 kg in
24 hours is an EXCEPTIONAL CASE, just like the male tiger that eat 35 kg
reported by Dr McDougal.
Why you don’t
show table 27 where is showed the ACTUALL food intake of a sample of 38 baits
and wild kills???
can see that the daily food intake of tigers (males and females) in Nepal is
about 14-19 kg, with normal food intakes of 14 kg in a period of 24 hours. Are you going to ignore this
Dr Sunquist and Dr Dinerstein CONFIRMED the
figures of 260 kg empty and 272 kg with some stomach content, for tigers M-105
and M-126. It doesn’t
matter what Yamaguchi has to say, he has
NEVER worked with tigers in the wild. It is simply stupid to ignore the
REAL experts that worked in Nepal, like you are doing here.
published all his tiger weights (see table 2), however he only weighed tigers
in the period of his study (1974-1976). The other weights of upper 272 kg were
not recorded by him, but by Dr Dave Smith and Dr Dinerstein and they DO publish
these records (Smith et al., 1983;
Dinerstein, 2003). Your assumption that Dr Sunquist deliberately occulted his
records is AN IDIOCY from you, don’t
supported by ANY evidence.
Fri, Mar 7, 2014 9:46 PM
Asad wrote:Assuming your young and vibrant, a lion is a lion as Dr. Packer called them all "cave lions".
Do you believe
in Dr Packer??? Well, check what he says about the Indian lions:
Indian lions are NOT native from India, in the words of the tiger expert Valmik
Thapar and supported by the modern lion expert Dr. Craig Packer.
Sat, Mar 8, 2014 4:43 PM
Sun, Mar 9, 2014 5:00 PM
Sun, Mar 9, 2014 6:04 PM
Sun, Mar 9, 2014 8:14 PM
Mon, Mar 10, 2014 10:06 AM
Cave, in the Ardèche valley of Southern France, holds an extraordinary
number of Paleolithic paintings of Panthera atrox dating from 35,000
years ago. Cave lions were larger than Siberian tigers and once ranged
from Los Angeles to Alaska and from Siberia to Western Europe.
While some of the Chauvet lion drawings are crude and schematic, most are remarkably lifelike and naturalistic.
A lion-like pantherine felid is described as Panthera (Leo) fossilis (von Reichenau, 1906) from the late Early Pleistocene sediments of the Kuznezk Basin (Western Siberia, Russia). The find of P. fossilis
first recorded in Asia considerably extends current notion of the
eastward expansion of the most ancient lions. The Siberian lion is
geologically the oldest form and is dimensionally among the largest
members of the group of fossil lions on the Eurasian continent. Although
known by mandibular remains only, it is readily distinguished from Panthera (Leo) spelaea
(Goldfuss, 1810) by a heavy built mandibular corpus with rectangular
profile in the cheek teeth area, a deep, well-outlined and narrow
anterior section of the masseteric fossa, and a large р4 supported by a
big unreduced anterior root. These features the Siberian lion shares
with the European Middle Pleistocene P. fossilis and American Late Pleistocene P. (Leo) atrox (Leidy, 1853), which suggests their close relationship. P. atrox originated from P. fossilis
and was isolated in North America south of the Late Pleistocene ice
sheets. This explains why the American lion has retained more primitive
features than the coeval Eurasian cave lion P. (L.) spelaea.
...The presence if a
lion-like cat in Alaksa was reported by Frick (1930) and numerous finds
are now on record from Alaska and Yukon (see Harington 1960). The
Pleistocene lion of North American was described under the name Felis
atrox by leidy in 1853 (F. imperialis Leidy, 1873 is synonym. However, Hemmer (174) and others regard it as a subspecies (Panthera Leo Athrox) of lion and I concur with this opinion…..In
the present study, the metric characters of the Beringian lion are
compared with those for P.l.atrox and P.l.spelaea. The results support
Vereschagin’s conclusion of a closer relationship with the Eurasian
population ...Variates which were found to be especially useful in
sexing includes size of canine teeth, carnassial, and mandible. ....I have tesed for differences between the Rancho La Brea lion and the remaining materal. Such differences as occur are non significant and random.....Again, the beringian lion is the smallest, P.l atrox is the largest…Again the P.l speleae are, on average significantly smaller than male P.l Atrox. ...Whether
other characters besides size were affected (instance in the
proportions of the postcranial skeleton) remains to be determined. The size difference alone is hardly sufficient to validate P.Athrox as a distinct species.
Whatever the origin of the lion dance, one thing is
certain: the lion that the Chinese knew was not the African lion, but
the Asiatic one. As it occurs in Chinese art and on the masks worn by
the lion dancers, it shows all the characteristics of the Asiatic lion:
a large tail tuft, a relatively small mane that leaves the ears clearly
visible, growths of hair extending to the joints of the forelegs and
along the belly, and a distinctive ventral skin fold. This is the lion
that one sees on the Ashokan pillar at Sarnath, our national emblem now,
and in sculptures of goddess Durga rides in in India.
It is of interest that the mythologies centering round
the lion from regions as distant and spread out as Greece, Anatolia,
West Asia and India are, somehow, inter-related even as they take
different forms in Judaic, Zoroastrian, Christian, Islamic, Hindu, Greek
and Buddhist arts. The words for 'lion' are again of interest. Leon
(Greek) by way of the Latin leo gives us the European distribution; simha
(Sanskrit) travels to South-East Asia to become singa (Indonesian)
and thus the lion of Singapore; and sh'ir, the original Persian
from which Hindi sher comes, becomes shizi in China, and shishi
Dr. Packer is not saying or disproving that Lions
once lived in India but suggesting a hybrid defect lions that not pure,
as neither is the large Bengal tigers of India
Dr. Craig Packer Current Biology Vol 20 No 14 R2
What are lions? The largest cats in Africa, lions are about the same size as tigers. Modern lions descend from the extinct cave lion (Panthera atrox), which once ranged more widely than any mammalian species.
We conclude our case with the leading expert on lions, who was most influenced by ancient lions as the discourse of his career lead him to modern lions, Dr. Craig Packer.. as promised-noted most scientist agree with the above with many studies cited from most recent era 2002-present...we rest our case.
The lion most certainly resided from Europe to Persia, China, Russia, and America's... the Mughals and Persians who are not native Indian's but ruled the region for very long time, could have most certainly imported native lions from Iran-Iraq-Afghanistan and hunt them in India, which they probably did to extinction, it's a scientific fact that the Gir lions carry Persian skull's, belly fold, but a "Hybrid" just as the large Bengal tigers in India which have mixed with Siberian making them a larger less attractive tiger.
Guate pkts, PRICELESS take your pencils out we hope you enjoyed your visit come back soon.
A long time ago a strange creature appeared in China and horrified and ate men and animals. The fast and fierce creature was called 'nien' (or 'nian'), which sounds like the Chinese word for 'year'. Neither the fox nor the tiger could fight the 'nien' effectively and in despair the people asked the lion for help.
Mon, Mar 10, 2014 1:37 PM
Mon, Mar 10, 2014 2:38 PM
Tue, Mar 11, 2014 1:22 PM
Tue, Mar 11, 2014 4:07 PM
Tue, Mar 11, 2014 4:42 PM
Again, Asad proves that he/she is a LIAR. Let’s correct all this misused documents
in 18 points that show how biased and deceiver is Asad-idiot.
1. The FIRST thing that we can see is that the topic is about
BARBARY LIONS, but as Asad-idiot was UNABLE to prove that Barbary lions are
larger than other lion populations and that he was also unable to prove that
there are ANY 100% pure Barbary lion in captivity, he/she suddenly twist the
full topic into a debate about Panthera
This is other evidence that Asad CAN’T sustain a conversation when we
show that he is a liar. As he/she had no evidence about Barbary lions, he/she
now change the subject in order to flee from the true and the fact that I have
showed that he/she is a liar and is creating FAKE evidence.
2. NONE of the documents quoted here proves, NOT
EVEN MENTION CHINA!!! The only two are: a) an outdated document, b) a children
book. Mmmmmmm, not even hard evidence.
3. Asad says: “Dr.
Packer, Yamaguchi, Patterson, Schaller, countless studies and science
community are in agreement lions lived all continents including China and
India, studies below. Dr Packer is not disproving that lions did not live in
India or China but that Hybrid lions are residing an unhealthy population, just
as the large Bengal tigers are hybrid carrying Siberian genes.”
the particular document where Dr Packer, Yamaguchi, Patterson and Schaller say
this???? You always say “this guy said
this”, but you NEVER show the ACTUAL document or email where that person
specifically said that.
there is no such thing as Bengal hybrid tigers. That was an isolated case in a
single tiger reserve that doesn’t affect ANY other tiger reserve, but I will
touch this point below. Dr Packer don’t even mention anything of hybrid lions,
he only support the fact of Dr Thapar that ALL Indian lions are exotic aliens,
transported to India, as NO WILD LION CAN SURVIVE IN TIGER TERRITORY. Check
4. About the famous study of DNA made by Barnett et al. (2009): You always twist
documents, showing only FRAGMENTS of the studies. But check what actually says
Dr Barnett and his team:
although they use the prefix “leo” in
the scientific names, the three groups LEO, SPELAEA and ATROX are THREE DIFERENT SPECIES, that not only
represent THREE DIFERENT TAXAS, but
also they DON’T intermix. So, it they don’t even
the fact that they lived together, then they are DIFERENT SPECIES. Did you need
more??? Jajajajaja, the ignorance of Asad-idiot and his incapability of
understand the documents show how ignorant he/she is.
5. About this: “All
late Pleistocene lion samples produced sequences that grouped strongly with
modern lion data (Jae-Heup et al. 2001; Barnett et al. 2006), rejecting any
postulated link between atrox and jaguar (Panthera onca) (Simpson 1941;
Christiansen 2008) or spelaea and tiger (Panthera tigris) (Herrington 1986;
simple, NONE specimen from Rancho La Brea was tested by DNA. Check this out:
specimen from Rancho La Brea, California and only FOUR specimens to close to
the large Ice sheet for been just washed specimens from the Beringia population.
This HUGE mistake in the analysis is important, as they were unable to see the
genetic variation between populations or even worst, the difference between two
better, check this out:
Source: 1. Christiansen
& Harris (2009: Craniomandibular morphology and phylogenetic affinities of Panthera
atrox: implications for the evolution and paleobiology of the lion lineage)
and 2. Simpson (1941: Large Pleistocene felids of North America).
Check that the first study used only specimens from Rancho La Brea itself.
is stated now in the La Brea Museum, the official home of Panthera atrox:
That Darn Cat
Naegele's giant jaguar
“Panthera atrox are relatively rare at Rancho
La Brea in contrast to smaller carnivores such as the saber-toothed cat
Smilodon fatalis and the dire wolf Canis dirus. Complete individuals of any
species are also extremely rare. However, the skeleton of this Panthera atrox
nicknamed “Fluffy” is relatively complete. Thus far we have uncovered
approximately 40% of this animal excluding the feet. However, there still may
be more yet undiscovered at our excavation site. “Fluffy” gives paleontologists
new and interesting data on limb proportions of these extinct felines.
Continuing research includes taphonomic studies on how the bones were found in
Tiny bones are rare in the fossil record mostly
because they are too small to be seen in the field. At Rancho La Brea however,
unusual skeletal elements such as this 1/8 inch ear bone called the incus are
recovered in the matrix surrounding larger bones when cleaned in the Fishbowl
no longer American “lion”, but Naegele’s Jaguar!!! Step by step, the TRUE is
reaching all the people.
6. Asad say this: “Chauvet
Cave, in the Ardèche valley of Southern France, holds an extraordinary number
of Paleolithic paintings of Panthera atrox dating from 35,000 years ago. Cave
lions were larger than Siberian tigers and once ranged from Los Angeles to
Alaska and from Siberia to Western Europe. While some of the Chauvet lion
drawings are crude and schematic, most are remarkably lifelike and
puts this source: http://www.lionresearch.org/
I ask, where in that page, is the paragraph that you
state here??? There
is NOTHING about Panthera atrox
here!!!! Why you put FAKE address
Asad??? Do you think that we don’t read your FAKE sources???
7. Asad says: “Persian lions semi wild able to
survive in India where the large Bengal tiger resides, no problem”
Indian lions live in the ONLY PLACE were tigers had NEVER LIVED, which are the
dry forest of Gujarat. If the lion lived in tiger territory, it was killed and
destroyed. Check this out, again:
8. Asad says: “Sorking.. estimate 420 kg, 930
again. That estimation is incorrect as if you change the bone used in the
equation, the result change. However, THIS are the latest estimation of body
weight of Panthera atrox:
largest Panthera atrox skull is of 467.5 mm (Univ. Calif. 14001), actually
measured. Check the original image from Merriam & Stock (1932), which is
the official document of all the osteology of Panthera atrox:
weight of 420 kg is greatly exaggerated, in fact, the largest weight calculated,
using modern formulas and not the over-exaggerated formulas of Anyonge (1993),
is of 351 kg (Christiansen & Harris,
2009), check the full text:
As we can
see, the second largest skull (2900-3) produced a weight of 351 kg. The skull
from California seems larger and could produce a higher weight, BUT read what
Merrian & Stock (1932) said about this specimen:
type of F. atrox bebbi (Univ. Calif. No. 14001) exceeds in length the largest
specimen (No. 2900-3) in the Los Angeles Museum collection, but its larger
size is not maintained throughout the series of measurements.”
At the end,
this is just a “long” skull that belonged to a smaller body specimen (this
happens often among modern lions). In this case, the large male 2900-3 is the true record specimen (from about 80 specimens
recorded all over USA and Canada, at 2014).
same time, Wheeler & Jefferson (2009) calculated a maximum weight of 332 kg
for the larges male Panthera atrox, using
all modern formulas overall
probably a too low figure, that is why I believe that a figure of 350-360 kg is
more likely for a exceptionally large male of Panthera atrox (check that only 4 skulls surpass the modern lion
which say that these figures are too low, please compare them with the maximum
records of the modern great cats:
Panthera atrox – Skull 467.5 mm - weight 351 kg.
tiger – Skull 413 mm – weight 260 kg.
lion – Skull 432 mm – weight 240 kg.
Amur tiger –
Skull 406 mm – weight 254 kg.
Asian lion –
Skull 365.8 mm – weight 190 kg.
As we can see
this maximum figure of P. atrox have
a perfectly match with the modern ones and correspond to specimens with empty
belly weights (except the Indian one, which includes some stomach content
(Jonhsingh, 2006)). Hope this helps to clarify the topic.
is the top weight for this large species.
9. Asad put this link: http://dc.etsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2637&context=etd
“Based on the morphological characters used here, a
relationship between Pa nthera leo and P. atrox is supported, whereas one
between P. onca and P. atrox is not”
never show the entire paragraphs!!! Check this out, from the same document:
the document mention that Panthera atrox
is highly related with tigers too!!! This invalidates the previous document of
Candian Joyrnal of Earth
C. R. Harington
doi: 10.1139/e69-127 v. 6 no.
5 p. 1277-1288
Skull and forelimb fragments
of the large, extinct cat (Panthera atrox) from Pleistocene sediments in the
Dawson area, Yukon Territory, are the first records of the species for Canada.
A further specimen from the Kaolak River, near the arctic coast of Alaska,
significantly extends the known northward range of this cat. The species has
been reported from approximately 26 localities from Alaska to Peru, and may
have migrated from Eurasia just prior to the Sangamon interglacial. Data
reviewed suggest that Panthera atrox from North America, the Eurasian
"cave lion" Panthera leo spelaea, and the large Chinese cat Panthera
youngi are conspecific.
Yes, this OLD study of Harringon is now INVALID,
thanks for the new study.
“PANTHERA ATROX” IS CORRECT, “PANTHERA LEO ATROX” NO!!! IT IS A DIFERENT
SPECIES (King, 2012).
10. Asad quotes this:
“Dr Yamaguchi said despite the disparity in brain size,
the lion remained at the top of the food chain.”
because Yamaguchi is lion biased. Check what Dr Valmik Thapar (top tiger
expert) and Dr Carig Packer (top lion expert) says about tiger vs lion.
the real experts says that THE TIGER WILL WIN/DESTROY THE LION!!!
11. Asad mention this book as evidence
of Panthera youngi been a lion: http://books.google.com.gt/books?id=pSEWZJjSCn8C&pg=PA109&lpg=PA109&dq=panthera+leo+youngi&source=bl&ots=OWIhPMJOoh&sig=fwbPLI-EBxx1OdALYw3EKbLdWtw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=nkQ8UpjuEbi34AO3qoGQBA&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=panthera%20leo%20youngi&f=false
CHILDRENS BOOK??? Jajajajajajaja.
12. Asad says: “felix youngi A mandible from Chou Kou Tien was
described by Pei (1934) as a new species on account of the gently convex lower
border and the longer symphysis and the larger size as compared to Panthera
tigriss (linnaeus)..74mm against 71mm”
incomplete data. Here is the true paragraph:
Wanhsien tiger is larger than the specimen of Panthera youngi.
The Panthera youngi humerus is smaller than
that of modern tigers.
Panthera youngi IS A TIGER!!! End of the discussion.
mandible of Felis youngi is SMALLER than
that of the tigers. Interesting too, that the document doesn’t state that there
was a lion, but only another population of the already existing tiger.
This is accepted
by Kitchener & Yamaguchi (2010):
your “god” Yamaguchi says that Panthera
youngi is a tiger, WHERE YOU SAYING???
13. Asad quotes this page: http://www.photomazza.com/?Panthera-leo
page of a PHOTOGRAPHER??? He is not even a Doctor, he is a JOURNALIST. His page
if surely FAKE. If not, why there is not a single of his documents published or
used by other scientists???
14. About the fossils of lions in
read those documents??? They classified them using UNRELIABLE METHODS. Check
“Based on these, P. [E. P.] Deraniyagala
(1939) erected a new subspecies of lion, Panthera leo sinhaleyus, designating a left lower
carnassial (M1) as holotype (the other, a fragment of a right
lower canine, in too poor condition to facilitate diagnosis, was lodged as a ‘metatype’ in NMSL: P.
Deraniyagala, 1947).” Pg. 423.
“P. Deraniyagala (1939) distinguished the holotype M1 of Panthera leo sinhaleyus from those of
P. tigris entirely by its larger size, concluding that “The Ceylon fossil, although
narrower and more elongate, agreed in general size with the lions’ teeth”.” Pg. 424.
Deraniyagala don’t even had
the proper material to erect a subspecies, but he did it without hard evidence.
Even worst, the authors of this article used several tigers and lions for
comparison but only ONE LEOPARD! This is obviously a biased document and for comparison,
they results are unreliable. Interestingly, only Wikipedia quote this as a
reliable source, while Kitchener & Yamaguchi (2010) mention it but show
they doubt on its reliability too. Remember also that Deraniyagala was the
crazy guy that erected the subspecies of Sudan tiger (Panthera tigris sudanensis) that it was latter showed to be a FAKE
description based in the unscientific approach of Deraniyagala in producing
taxonomy. This is NOT
science Asad-idiot, you should know that.
15. Asad say this: “Dr. Packer is not saying or disproving that Lions once
lived in India but suggesting a hybrid defect lions that not pure, as neither
is the large Bengal tigers of India”
That is NOT
what Dr Packer says, READ IT AGAIN:
“Whereas resent DNA test reveal clear differences
between the Gir lions and lions from
eastern and southern Africa, they cannot
be distinguished from North African lions” – Packer, 2013. There you go!!!!
16. About this: “..Bengal tigers were transported around the world and
frequently crossed with other tiger subspecies, as reflected by the large
number (33%) of the captive tigers we tested that had admixed genetic heritages
derived partially from Bengal tigers.”
this is about CAPTIVE TIGERS, not WILD tigers. There is a huge difference, why
you LIE Asad????
too: “..captive tigers showed that
they retain appreciable intrinsic genomic diversity unobserved in their wild
counterparts; perhaps a consequence of inclusion of wild-caught founders to the
large captive breeding world established for over a century”
clear, they are referring that some captive tigers have Bengal genes that are
already extinct in the wild caused by over-hunting. WHAT are you trying to
17. Asad quotes this: “Dr. Craig Packer Current Biology Vol 20 No 14 R2
What are lions? The largest
cats in Africa, lions are about the same size as tigers. Modern lions descend
from the extinct cave lion (Panthera atrox), which once ranged more widely than
any mammalian species.”
African lions are NOT EVEN NEAR the Panthera
atrox, nor geographicaly but also genetically, check this out:
“For all three data
sets, comparison of Akaike information criterion scores suggested the HKY85
model of nucleotide substitution. Each beast analysis assumed this substitution
model as well as a constant population size and a strict molecular clock
calibrated using the age of the split between the spelaea and leo groups
(with a normal prior mean of 550 000 years,
standard deviation 25 000 years), based on the first appearance of Panthera leo fossilis (Garcia Garcia
2001; Burger et al. 2004).”
evolutionary tree of Barnett et al.
(2009) show that the cave “lions” separate from modern lions about 600,000-500,000
years ago (at the root of the tree), more than enough time to develop a completely different species.
Burguer et al. (2004), put the date exactly at
that Cave lions and modern lions are in the same clade (together with leopards
and jaguar), but they are highly different and live NOT MODERN DESCENDENTS.
This proves that modern lions DO NOT
DESCENT from Cave lions, even lees from Panthera
finally, check this out:
Brown, 1993. The Bear Almanac. One of the BEST scientific sources about
bears and the brown bears are completely different species, and they separated
in less time than lions, beginning about 300,000 years ago and split completely
at about 20,000 years ago. So is sure to say that Panthera fossilis spelaea and Panthera
atrox, that split about 550,000 years ago, were WAY DIFERENT than modern
lions, even if they were sexually dimorphic.
18. Asad say: “The lion most certainly resided from Europe to Persia,
China, Russia, and America's... the Mughals and Persians who are not native
Indian's but ruled the region for very long time, could have most certainly
imported native lions from Iran-Iraq-Afghanistan and hunt them in India, which they
probably did to extinction, it's a scientific fact that the Gir lions carry
Persian skull's, belly fold, but a "Hybrid" just as the
large Bengal tigers in India which have mixed with Siberian making them a
larger less attractive tiger.”
LIVED IN AFRICA AND PERSIA. Indian lions were INTRODUCED by Mughals (Thapar et al., 2013). The belly fold is also
present in Barbary and West African lions, and about the skull, check this out:
et al. (2009). Divided infraorbital foramen in the lion (Panthera leo): its implications for colonization
history, population bottlenecks, and conservation of the Asian lion (P. l. persica).
The divided foramina is not a characteristic unique in
Indian lions, as also arise in African lions, tigers and Cave “lions”.
By the way,
Show me the document where is
says that al large Bengal tigers are mixed with Amur tigers???
only ONE isolated event in Duwa reserve. The giant tigers of Kumaon, Nepal,
Orang, Kaziranga, Panna and Bandhavgarh, were not even affected by that
Asad, I have taken all you little “sources” and I show here that you are not only
WRONG, but also that you are a LIAR that change the sources, that don’t show
the full sources and that create FAKE evidence.
your pencil out I hope you enjoyed your visit, and please, come back soon, I
enjoy destroying you. Jajajajajajajaja.
Tue, Mar 11, 2014 5:46 PM
confusion, here is again the image of the evolutionary tree of the three different
taxas of “lions”, with different colors, plus a little ad:
the DNA analysis showed that Barbary and Indian lions are about the
same, even more closely related than some Cave lion population between them (intra-specifically).
even more, the theory of Thapar et al.
(2013), that lions from India were originated from Africa, and that the
particular population of Gir probably came from the lions exported by the
Mughals and Alexander the great, which take them from North Africa and Persia.
Tue, Mar 11, 2014 5:55 PM
Tue, Mar 11, 2014 6:22 PM
Wed, Mar 12, 2014 8:44 AM
..Thus, mane length indicates recent fighting success, and mane color conveys information about male aggressiveness and potential reproductive success...costs of expressing such elaborate physical characteristics so that only the highest-quality males can carry the most exaggerated traits
Wed, Mar 12, 2014 2:20 PM
perrault11 wrote:Wow that was a beating of epic proportions .
Wed, Mar 12, 2014 2:29 PM
Asad wrote:Apocalypse the Atlas lion dna is unque as it resides by the Bergman's rule upper elevation effecting its evolution.Guate I will end your nonsense by the leading expert from Journal of biology on the true position of these respected scientist, not emails.
the DNA analysis showed that Barbary and Indian lions are about the
same, they are NOT unique, they are even more closely related than some Cave lion population between them (intra-specifically).
Asad-idiot, I have end your nonsense by the leading experts from original documents and some Journals of Biology on the true position of these respected scientist (Barbary lions are not unique, nor larger, no captive specimen is 100% pure; Panthera atrox is not a lion but a different species related with both lions and jaguars), not idiotic nonsenses from you uneducated brain.
Wed, Mar 12, 2014 4:02 PM
Wed, Mar 12, 2014 4:54 PM
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