Bull kills lion, tiger kills boar. Fighting tactics in Lion vs Tiger Discussion Forum

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Bull kills lion, tiger kills boar. Fighting tactics

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Ayaaz.sharks77551	Bull kills lion, tiger kills boar. Fighting tactics		Lead	[-]
Posts: 1661 Sun, Oct 19, 2008 5:27 AM	Remove this ad B Blind challenger(Lion) vs Bull. Clever boxer(Tiger) vs Boar.
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Lioness2008		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 216 Sun, Oct 19, 2008 6:07 AM	Comparing a bull to a boar is laughable. The lion was in a smaller area, probably never fought an animal or seen an animal that big in its life, while a tiger gets to fight a small boar in a larger area. Tiger fans of course, beating a boar is like taking on 1,000 elephants. And btw where is it that the lion was killed? A lion suffers nothing...he either overcomes and dominates, or he dies trying..but there is no succumbing. Tiger fans are anti-lion haters, there is tons of lion bashing videos on youtube that tiger fans use in debates, but tiger fans hate me for adding a few in my opinion. Does that even make sence? No, no it doesn't.
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jangidap.sharks77551		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1582 Sun, Oct 19, 2008 9:04 AM	Lioness2008 wrote: Comparing a bull to a boar is laughable. The lion was in a smaller area, probably never fought an animal or seen an animal that big in its life, while a tiger gets to fight a small boar in a larger area. Tiger fans of course, beating a boar is like taking on 1,000 elephants. And btw where is it that the lion was killed? tiger against buffaloes and bulls I once saw an entire herd of five buffaloes wiped out in a titanic fight with an enraged tiger. The tiger killed one of their number and the other four big-hearted animals attacked him and fought on until the last of them had been killed. The tiger evidently suffered severely in the fight, for when he left the battleground he left a trail of blood."(p.96) NOTE:::asiatic water buffalo are bigger than african ones....the best point is while a tiger does it alone...a lion needs"extra help" from other members of a pride Man-Eaters of India by Jim Corbett, Oxford University Press, 1957 "…one day I found a tigress with four small cubs. She had killed a bull gaur, a remarkable feat considering she weighed about three hundred pounds and he two thousand." (p.169) Stones of Silence Journeys in the Himalaya by George B. Schaller,The Viking Press, New York, 1980. "It has been stated that tigers will never tackle a full-grown male gaur…but R. C. Morris knew of at least six solitary bulls killed by them." (p. 208) "Wild Cats of the World" by C. A. W. Guggisberg, Taplinger Publishing Company, New York, 1975. ne more of ur pathetic excuses lioness?
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Apollyon.sharks77551		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2632 Sun, Oct 19, 2008 10:56 AM	When Tigers were placed in enclosures to fight Bulls, they always lost (whereas Bears usually won). Look it up. This is a captive Lion in a small enclosure with a Bull. Comparing hunting tactics (ambushes) to a captive, trapped animal is ludicrous. Do you honestly think a Tiger would do better? Hence the reason I don't bother "debating" Tiger fans much anymore. Here's an example of a Tiger being mauled by a bull. http://books.google.ca/bo...ull+fight+tiger#PPA158,M1 http://books.google.ca/bo...q=bull+fight+tiger&lr= This author indicates the Tiger 'almost always' lost - although he blames it on the crowds for frightening the Tiger (what? the might Tiger frightened by the crowds? - probably what happened in the Colloseum!) How about this one? The Tiger was entirely reluctant to fight the Bull (wouldn't leave his enclosure) and simply tried to escape. Also note that the setup between the Bull and Tiger was to be against a 'mild' Bull - on the orders of the guy who was to get the Tiger - otherwise the Bull would 'put a hole in the Tiger leather'. The Tiger was branded a 'coward'. Now, unlike the standard Tiger fan, I don't do a completely disingenuous comparison with a Lion succeeding in taking down a Cape Buffalo - because I know the comparison is pointless. Both Cats are at a distinct disadvantage against a Bull - even a mediocre one - if they are trapped in a small enclosure - esp. if they are captive animals! This shouldn't be too hard to figure out but apparently to many Tigerfans will go out of their way to disparage the Lion. I'm special and I don't mean retarded Edited 1 time by Apollyon Sun, Oct 19, 2008 11:23 AM.
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jangidap.sharks77551		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1582 Sun, Oct 19, 2008 11:10 AM	When Tigers were placed in enclosures to fight Bulls, they always lost (whereas Bears usually won). Look it up. tiger/lions records against bulls,bears are very dissappointing!..but tigers invariably beat the lions...thats very much impressive enough from roman records... Famous tigress Phoebe in ancient Roman Colosseum: "It was in the Colosseum at Rome that Nero first set eyes on the animal, which caused more havoc than three other tigers renowned for their strength and ferocity." Colin Clair, "Unnatural History: An Illustrated Bestiary", Abelard-Schuman,London, New York, Toronto, 1967 (p.66) This is a captive Lion in a small enclosure with a Bull. Comparing hunting tactics (ambushes) to a captive, trapped animal is ludicrous. Do you honestly think a Tiger would do better? if it was in the wild it wouldnt have changed anything...is there a record of a single male lion killing a bull buffalo? Hence the reason I don't bother "debating" Tiger fans much anymore. as if it matters...lol
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Apollyon.sharks77551		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2632 Sun, Oct 19, 2008 11:34 AM	The Tigers did not beat the Lions in the Roman Colloseum. I have been the only one here to provide the most comprehensive information on Tigers in the Roman Colloseums. Only one record of a Tiger 'unexpectedly' killing a Lion (clearly not the norm then). If you can provide more than one case please do so. If you are unfamiliar with what is considered evidence I'm more than happy to help (opinions, statements etc, no matter from where or how often they are stated - do not equal primary evidence - which I have provided and to which no Tiger fan has added. Not that it stops them from educating me, a History major, on how to interpret historical evidence). Sounds like Phoebe made quite a showing - is a Tigress more impressive than 3 Tigers? There are records of male Lions killing Cape Bullalo - single handedly. Keep in mind Lions don't have the advantage of ambush, nor do they have the advantage of taking a Bull by itself (rarely). Cape Buffalo herds are in the thousands and they routinely fight back. Gaur are often alone (esp. Bulls) and in deep grass. The previous account I gave shows a Tiger hiding from the Buffalo in deep grass - and launching surprise attacks - something which Lions don't get to do. Lions (a single male Lion) has killed a bull Black Rhino - broke its leg. They have also taken down Giraffes, etc - all without the aid of ambush. It's unfortunate that this has to be explained to Tiger fans - who seem to be generally unaware of the differences of the various prey animals - as well as the differences - advantages and disadvantages - of the environment. Remember the post about the two Asiatic Lions that massacred several buffalos - including bulls? They were domestic animals but the Lions slaughtered them. If this was done by Tigers it would be posted here ad infinitum as evidence of their superiority. Clearly it depends upon the environment, the animals and the circumstances. Most of your knowledge of Tiger killing prowess comes from old books. Yet, we know from more recent observations that Tigers succeed 5-10% of the time compared with 17% for the lone Lion and 32% for 2 or more Lions. Perhaps the Tiger successes are greatly exaggerated? Or singled out? The Lion is easily observed - thus his losses are easy to see - which outweigh his victories. The same would hold true for the Tiger - but how many have been observed hunting and winning? I'm special and I don't mean retarded Edited 1 time by Apollyon Sun, Oct 19, 2008 11:36 AM.
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jangidap.sharks77551		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1582 Sun, Oct 19, 2008 12:44 PM	i wont debate wid u abt the roman %@*! ..atleast not now...i would take the words of kailsah shankala,sunquists opinion(2 higly respected tiger scientists--remember shankala favours lions over a tiger)..and many other respected authors than ur words.. There are records of male Lions killing Cape Bullalo - single handedly. Keep in mind Lions don't have the advantage of ambush, nor do they have the advantage of taking a Bull by itself (rarely). Cape Buffalo herds are in the thousands and they routinely fight back. Gaur are often alone (esp. Bulls) and in deep grass. The previous account I gave shows a Tiger hiding from the Buffalo in deep grass - and launching surprise attacks - something which Lions don't get to do. Lions (a single male Lion) has killed a bull Black Rhino - broke its leg. They have also taken down Giraffes, etc - all without the aid of ambush. It's unfortunate that this has to be explained to Tiger fans - who seem to be generally unaware of the differences of the various prey animals - as well as the differences - advantages and disadvantages - of the environment. Remember the post about the two Asiatic Lions that massacred several buffalos - including bulls? They were domestic animals but the Lions slaughtered them. If this was done by Tigers it would be posted here ad infinitum as evidence of their superiority. Clearly it depends upon the environment, the animals and the circumstances. Most of your knowledge of Tiger killing prowess comes from old books. Yet, we know from more recent observations that Tigers succeed 5-10% of the time compared with 17% for the lone Lion and 32% for 2 or more Lions. Perhaps the Tiger successes are greatly exaggerated? Or singled out? The Lion is easily observed - thus his losses are easy to see - which outweigh his victories. The same would hold true for the Tiger - but how many have been observed hunting and winning? very good appoly...can u bring the data where a single male lion killed a adult cape bufflao,adult giraffe?i have been requesting many menbers from lioness to BC...both come wid statements..its just curiosity...where is the record? gaurs are the largest of bovines...gaurs are no sisies...like cape they are hard to kill...i have a buk of dr karanth where he describes an encouter between a male tiger taking down a bull gaur...unlike what they potray in TV..killing takes hrs...if u wish i will quote the lines...or atleast tell the story...dr karanth had seen the tiger named "dhasa" aka t03(257kg tiger) take down a adult gaur...dr karanth called him "gaur specialist"..ironically dhasa was killed by a gaur in a gruesome battle... 2 lions killing asiatic buffalo is impressive...but can one do it?a lone tiger killing a gaur is very impressive indeed...if there is ne predator that can take down the mighy gaur then its the tiger... schaller 5% sucess rates has bcum standard for tigers...yep but how many tiger hunting vdos have we scene?the documentary made by simon king "tiger kill" is a testimony to the fact how difficult it is to capture a tiger on film..let alone film it hunting...in this regard fateh singh rathore and and the beared guy(forgot his name) have done a gud job....
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Apollyon.sharks77551		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2632 Sun, Oct 19, 2008 1:49 PM	i wont debate wid u abt the roman %@*! ..atleast not now...i would take the words of kailsah shankala,sunquists opinion(2 higly respected tiger scientists--remember shankala favours lions over a tiger)..and many other respected authors than ur words.. I will take the word of the actual first century author - Martial, and an anthropologist specializing in this area (Manfredi), over two Tiger experts with zero history training and no historical references. Note that Manfredi is the author of the essay in Valmik Thapar's book: Tiger the Ultimate Guide. Clearly this is one Tiger expert who decided to rely on an expert of the time period to which everyone else refers. She quotes from all the known sources of the time period in question - only Martial makes reference of one Tiger/Lion fight - the point being his need to find an explanation indicates the outcome was the opposite of the norm. as for your other points - are you suggesting you don't believe a Lion can kill a Buffalo single-handedly? I'm special and I don't mean retarded
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Apollyon.sharks77551		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2632 Sun, Oct 19, 2008 2:26 PM	I should point out the obvious: Lions are (usually) in groups. Thus, most observations of a hunt will involve more than one Lion. Even if a bull is found dead and Lions are eating it - it will be assumed to be killed by the pride. Here is an article that describes the 'illusion' of the co-operative hunt. That is, most kills are done by one or two Lionesses, with the rest hanging back (they are there to get a free meal). Basically, a group of Lions is no more successful than 2 Lions. the success rate for one Lion is 15%, 29% for two, and 32% for 3 or more. This indicates that 2 Lions certainly can accomplish what a pride does (with the exception of killing Elephants i would say). http://www.edge.org/3rd_c...hrvold_lions07_index.html Point is, Lions don't need a whole pride to take down Buffalo. 2 can do it. If this is the norm (since it appears from Packer's research that 2 are doing all the work - the rest not bothering to help until danger is minimized), then it is probable that 1 can do it as well (with lower chances for success). another site shows a single Lion killing a subadult Buffalo (not the same thing I agree - but the rest of the herd came back in a rescue attempt - they were unsucessful). This is the link to the 2 Asiatic Lions killing 6 domestic Cattle (sex, age not mentioned). Clearly this was nearly effortless for them. One obvious argument is that Domestic Cattle are neither Gaurs nor Cape Buffalo. The other however, is that they were largely ambushed (forest vs. plains). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEFeA1289js This link shows two things: Cape Buffalo herds fight back. 3 adult buffalo were taking down almost at the same time by the pride - but the herd came back and attacked. Hence the reason it is difficult for Lions to take on Cape Buffalo (alone they are dangerous - in a herd, deadly). Note they also attempted, without success, to try to take an adult Bull Hippo! I doubt they would attempt this if the chances for success were zero. In any case, my points here are that, yes, it is difficult to find conclusive proof that a single Lion takes down a Cape Buffalo. However, this is more to do with the fact that Lions live in groups. But, as the Packer article shows, at most, only 2 Lionesses do the hunting - with near-equal success to 3 or more. This is evidence that a whole pride is not only unnecessary, but likely irrelevant in a hunt. I'm special and I don't mean retarded
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catlion		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1348 Sun, Oct 19, 2008 2:38 PM	Jegi you're ridiculous and pathetic, though not more than Ayaaz, Tigerlover, Bengaltigerfan, and all the rest.
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Ernest Wright		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1000 Sun, Oct 19, 2008 2:45 PM	Remove this ad CAT if you don't have anything intelligent, to say, don't say anything at all. Every comment you make is retarded, I can think one comment you've ever made, that's make sense. Your a complete idiot. Apollyon based on research lions didn't start a chance in hell against bulls. Most fights end, in a mutilated lion, like example below. Though the tiger had better success then the lion, when pitted against bulls.
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Apollyon.sharks77551		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2632 Sun, Oct 19, 2008 3:00 PM	Zero evidence the Tiger did any better. I note in your example the Bull is described as 'savage'. In mine, the Bull is described as 'mild' (the Tiger wouldn't even go near the Bull). Neither animal does well against a Bull in a face to face battle. I'm special and I don't mean retarded
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Ernest Wright		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1000 Sun, Oct 19, 2008 3:51 PM	Hypothetically not, Apollyon. I've been reading about it, On Sunday Sports in Texas there where some cases where bull was killed by tigers and tigresses. Also again in this time period tiger always beat lion. Anyways I'll leave you with these.
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jangidap.sharks77551		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1582 Sun, Oct 19, 2008 5:39 PM	no appoly..am just curious of how a lone lion would fare against a capie...its well know that tigers are the only predators that are capable of bringing down bull gaurs..weighing over a ton...and they do it alone..just curious to know how a lion would fair against a capie half the size of gaur...u know how much i like to share and recieve knowledge..dont u?i ask this bcos gaurs/capies are very difficult to kill...they have way much endurance and r resilient than a lion/tiger...even then for a single lion to take on a capie..it has to be a extraordinary feat...a single lion....can bring down a capie..but its too dificult...tigers are even known to bring down elephants...though extremely rare...but the difference being...tigers do it alone...
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Apollyon.sharks77551		#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2632 Sun, Oct 19, 2008 6:34 PM	jangidap, A Gaur, while obviously a dangerous animal, is often alone and attacked from ambush. Lions rarely have the luxury of ambush. If two Lionesses can take down Cape Buffalo with regularity (some prides specialize in Buffalo) then it is entirely within the realm of possibility that a single Lion can do it. There are the occasional accounts that I've read of lone male Lions doing this. Keep in mind, the Cape Buffalo is rarely alone and rarely ambushed. The Tiger attacks the Gaur from behind and, if it can't get a good purchase disappears back into the tall grass or jungle in order to prepare to launch the next ambush. Lions don't have this luxury. This is akin to arguing (as many do) that Wolves can't take down Moose by themselves because they are pack hunters. However, most 'packs' are headed by one adult pair - male and female - and their young. The pair do the actual attack with the male usually taking the lead. There are cases, although rare, of lone Wolves taking down Moose. However, my point here was that it is often the work of one Wolf anyway - with some support from another Wolf on occasion. The same holds true for the Lion. Lions have taken Rhino by themselves - the highly dangerous Black Rhino. When it comes down to it, they are comparable animals - but they inhabit very different environments - the Lion being at a disadvantage in these type of scenarios - living out in the open with minimal opportunity for an ambush (note when Lions 'ambush' it is from about 50 metres away - not 5-10 metres like the Tiger). Huge advantage living in a jungle if one is going to ambush a large dangerous animal. Still, on average Lions hunt prey that is 4x larger than Tigers. This says something (again, before you say 'pride' keep in mind my previous posts re: Packer and his observations that max 2 Lionesses do the majority of the work). I'm special and I don't mean retarded
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catlion		#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1348 Sun, Oct 19, 2008 7:15 PM	Apollyon, with you it seems as though wisdom had come back again to this Forum.
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catlion		#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1348 Sun, Oct 19, 2008 7:20 PM	Ap. what is your real specialization: history, zoology or accountancy and finantial consulting? What could you tell of the Yankee Bond Market? Is it a good moment now to make a big deal, I mean, a bond issue? Could you tell who Catalina de Aragon was? (Google is forbidden). And lastly, who would win in a fight, a lion from the Sherengueti plains or a Tsavo lion? A Tsavo lion or a Nepal Bengal tiger?
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Ernest Wright		#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1000 Sun, Oct 19, 2008 7:22 PM	catlion wrote: Apollyon, with you it seems as though wisdom had come back again to this Forum. You know how to spell words, but not how to form a sentence. Wow. Just wow. CAT I have a challenge, instead of being a retarded cheerleader, why for the first time, post something ingelligent?
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jangidap.sharks77551		#18	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1582 Sun, Oct 19, 2008 7:44 PM	gaurs are not often alone.. gaurs live in small herds from 25 to 40 groups...but bulls sometimes wander alone during mating seasons... ...but what sets the tigers apart when hunting these large animals is agility...tigers are more agile than lions..being more explosive and fleet footed...but lions especially male lions) are clumsy hunters unlike females... i am sure u have read george schallers "deer and the tiger"... One of the largest bull gaur seen by George Schaller during the year 1964 in Kanha national park was killed by a tiger... in malaysia...reginald pocock has documented a large bull gaur killed by a tiger and moved several feet which his 13 men couldnt move.... can a single lion bring down a capie?.i dont think lone lions would risk taking down a capie..they dont just have the skills to do it.......there are many solitary lions in afrca...who couldnt form coalition... abt ambush hunting...capies have very poor eyesight..i once remember watching a doc where a bachelors pride cappies was just some 10 to 20 feet away from a group of lioness..lakes had dried out and they were using one of the last pools in the area.....but there were only abt 7 cappies....lions can ambush them in the tall grass..the lions managed to take one of them down.....majority of lion hunts are after evenings...so having thick covers or not ussually doesnt matter..cappies have very poor eye sight abt rhinos...am sure u have heard of the kaziranga park tigers...the gr8 one horned rhinos are bigger than black rhinos and similar to white rhinos.. did u see the data... The incident is one of the 50 cases of rhino deaths within a year in the park, a home to the endangered animal. 28 rhinos were killed by poachers, 16 died natural death, 3 were killed by tiger, and two had died in vehicular accidents. http://209.85.207.104/sea...hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=10&gl=us "The two greater one-horned rhinos (Rhinoceros unicornis) include a female who was rescued four years ago after its mother was killed by a tiger, and a male who was rescued after being washed away and separated from its mother about eight years ago. " http://www.panda.org/abou...s/index.cfm?uNewsID=18912 Data collected from 1985 to 1995 has revealed that tiger predation is the second largest threat to the rhino population after poaching. In the 11-year period 178 rhinos were killed by tigers in the park, Talukdar, B.K., 1998. Tiger predation of rhinoceroses. Oryx 32 (2): 96 i am not sure but 148 of them were calfs,juniors,...but the rest adults... now all i want to find is a single lion taking down a cappie,or a rhino...NOTE:::black rhinos are smaller than indian rhinos... There are the occasional accounts that I've read of lone male Lions doing this. can u get the source for it...lioness once supplied me a vdo of a single lioness killing a cappie..but it proved to be damp squib... if u have the data plz share it...just to raise my knowledge...its really disappointing that there is no data on single lion predation on capies...yep i understand..2 or 3 can do the job...but i wanted definitive answer...lions are the 2nd highest filmed animals after sharks..i wished atleast one account was there...
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Lioness2008		#19	[url]	[-]
Posts: 216 Sun, Oct 19, 2008 8:13 PM	Comparing 40 gaur to over 200 cape buffalo is not really impressive. Buffaloes can live in herds of a few hundred, but have been known to congregate in thousands in the Serengeti during the rainy season. Big mixed herds of buffalo, some of them with 1500 and more buffalo in the herds have been seen grazing on the flood plains. The difference in lion vs buffalo and tiger vs buffalo, when lions do kill buffalo alone, its in the open, the buffalo knows whats coming, the buffalo vs tiger is different, most often its a sneak attack, and not a fair fight. Shortly afterwards, Gwist, one of the guides, and Kobus took a vehicle around to the front of the camp to see if the lions were still there before they accompanied the guests back to their suites. Two Lionesses were in front of the fireplace, looking intently at the 150 or so elephants that were moving around the waterhole. On returning to the main area they barely noticed the one female as she was walking past the front of the lodge. A few minutes later everybody could hear the anxious yelps of a pack of wild dog close by. It was very difficult trying to keep everyone inside, knowing exactly what was transpiring around the waterhole, however, as always safety comes first. After less than a minute the panicking bellowing of an elephant could be heard. Very slowly and with great care, Kobus made his way down to the swimming pool deck to see what had happened. The two Lionesses had just brought down an elephant cow of approximately ten years old. Slowly everybody moved into a position from where they could observe the lions, as the staff were unsure where the remaining lions of the pride were, this, however was only for a few of minutes before they all made their way back to the bar. http://lionprides.wordpress.com/ Gaur kill tigers as well. On the other hand, there are several cases of tigers being killed by gaur. In one instance, a tiger was repeatedly gored and trampled to death by a gaur during a prolonged battle.^[4] In another case, a large male tiger carcass was found beside a small broken tree in Nagarahole national park, being fatally struck against the tree by a large bull gaur a few days earlier.^[5]Btw. Male lion with buffalo kill, Ruaha NP Lion with morning kill (water buffalo) @ Chitabe Camp A lion suffers nothing...he either overcomes and dominates, or he dies trying..but there is no succumbing. Tiger fans are anti-lion haters, there is tons of lion bashing videos on youtube that tiger fans use in debates, but tiger fans hate me for adding a few in my opinion. Does that even make sence? No, no it doesn't. Edited 1 time by Lioness2008 Sun, Oct 19, 2008 8:33 PM.
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Ernest Wright		#20	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1000 Sun, Oct 19, 2008 8:34 PM	Remove this ad I see lioness you have to have a piece of the action in Arane and Apollyons conversation....Lioness it's 10 times more impressive one tiger facing 40 gaur, versus a pride of 25 lions facing 50 to 150 cape buffalo. A tiger doesn't have backing of the pride. Guars and Water buffalos are both larger and stronger then Cape buffalos. An a single tiger facing a Asian buffalo herd is also more impressive. No lions being killed by cape buffalos which are smaller and weaker then gaurs, is a daily occurence.On the other hand tigers being killed by gaurs is almost folklore and rare. Totally uncomparable. Everything has to be a contest with you.
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Bull kills lion, tiger kills boar. Fighting tactics

Bull kills lion, tiger kills boar. Fighting tactics